金口若望生平對話錄 第 1 章 第 7/9 段

{THE BISHOP} And what did she show toward him worthy of his own virtue? If not this: that she provided him freedom from care for his daily bread;

which is no small thing for the workers of Christ, who care for the things of Christ both by night and by day;

as Paul says in greeting Persis — the very thing at which Olympias, too, perhaps labored:

"Greet," he writes, "Persis the beloved, who labored much in the Lord" — for all seek their own interests, and not those of Christ. I know that she served the blessed Nectarius even more fully, so that he even deferred to her in ecclesiastical matters.

...did she bestow? And when Optimus was dying in Constantinople, she closed his eyes with her own hands.

Besides these, she also refreshed—not sparingly, in every respect—those pitiable men Antiochus, Acacius, and Severian, and, in short, to some degree all the clergy who were staying in the city, as well as countless ascetics and virgins.

John, indeed, since he had resolved — so to speak — to be a pattern sent to bishops who would come after him, showing how they ought to live, according to Paul, preaching repentance at his own charge, touching nothing that belonged to the church, took only the food of each day, ever fleeing such anxious care.

It is said that he even seemed ashamed, as he partook of sensible, material food.

For just as with apples, when they have ripened to the utmost, they cannot bear to remain on the branch, but seek the hand of their owner;

so also with the saints: when they have come to love beyond measure the beauty of heavenly things, before their appointed departure they hasten to obtain the promise;

just as also with the children of a master of the house: for they often, in expectation of honey-cakes, refrain from touching the food set before them, in order to preserve their appetite, so that they may be filled with the sweetness they anticipate.

Let those who have entered upon the same path of the spiritual journey recognize these words;

And I say this, that the bishop's food would have been no burden at all to the church, even if St. John had partaken of the church's provisions, according to him who said:

"For the laborer is worthy of his food," and again, "Who shepherds a flock and does not eat of the milk of the flock? Who plants a vineyard and does not partake of its fruit?" Are not these things, and many others, from Scripture? {THE BISHOP} You have spoken fittingly and wisely, O Theodore;

but add to the words already spoken what follows as well:

For since authority was granted by the sacred law that those who work at sacred things should eat from the sacred offerings, what does Paul, ever eager for what is good, add? — "I did not use this authority in bodily things, that I might become a fellow-partaker of the Gospel in spiritual things, not becoming a stumbling-block to the weak," according to him who said, "For if someone sees you, who have knowledge, reclining in a state of weakness, will not his conscience, weak as he is, be emboldened to imitate the weak things?" For if the matter stood with us alone, with no one succeeding us afterward in the care of the people, one might say, though mistakenly:

"Let us live as we wish, enjoying the things of this life." But since those who come after us make use of us as teachers, putting forward our rule and custom as precedent, it is necessary not to live for ourselves alone, but for him who died and was raised for us, and — overriding the weakness of the people — to lead the order of life toward the more moderate and less extravagant course, admonishing ourselves, according to him who says:

"The Lord will instruct sinners in the way, and will chastise transgressors";

such was Job, both in deed and in word:

"I have sworn, and I am determined, to keep the ordinances of your righteousness";

having fettered with an oath the wavering and doubtful state of his resolve,

desiring to heal the multitude of men, afflicted with various desires, and lead them toward the more austere side of life, he became his own judge and lawgiver, fortified by an unshakable resolve; he cut himself off from banquets and gatherings of jesters, buffoons, and idle talkers, and armed the eye of his soul with the full armor of the Spirit, lest folly, finding entrance through a banquet or an ill-timed word, should destroy self-control — according to him who said:

"Evil companionships corrupt good morals." Therefore he also equipped himself accordingly;

for he was oppressive to them by his very appearance, just as a lamp is to eyes bleary with disease;

such indeed was the compassionate Jeremiah, who with tears lamented the faithlessness of the rulers and the priests, saying:

"Who will give water to my head, and to my eyes fountains of tears, that I may weep for my people day and night?" And again, "Who will give me a last lodging place in the wilderness, that I may leave my people and depart from them? For they all commit adultery";

naming the assembly of the false prophets and priests a "council of those who reject" the covenant;

as also elsewhere he addresses God — not as though God were ignorant of it, but as an example we ought to imitate:

"Lord, I have not sat in the council of those who mock, but I stood in awe before your face";

saying, "I have not sat with the council of vanity, and I will not enter in with those who transgress the law";

"I have hated the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the ungodly";

"I will wash my hands among the innocent" — the practical faculties of the soul — "and I will go about your altar, O Lord." But those who cared less for the altar and turned their backs upon it — not by intention, but by the manner in which they lived — trampled it underfoot not only with unwashed and blood-stained hands, through bribery, the taking of gifts, and forgery, but even with feet caked in mud;

concerning whom the prophet Ezekiel, speaking obliquely, says:

"He brought me to the entrance of the court, and I looked, and behold, there was a hole in the wall."

"Go in, and see the wicked iniquities that they commit here." And I went in, and behold, every likeness of creeping thing and beast, and vain, abominable idols;

"Have you seen, son of man, what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, in their secret chamber?" — hinting obliquely at their impure understanding — "for they said:"

"The Lord does not see us; the Lord has forsaken the land." And he said to me:

"You shall yet see greater iniquities that these men commit." And he brought me to another place, and showed me:

and behold, there were women sitting there, weeping for Tammuz. And again:

"He brought me into the inner house of the Lord";

and behold, there were twenty-four elders there, and their faces were turned away, and their backs were toward the altar.

"Are these small things which the house of Israel does?" We have been compelled to recall this passage of the prophet on account of those more reckless persons who think themselves to be something, who deceive themselves, and who throw the peace of the church into confusion by turning their backs on the table of the Lord — for whom judgment is not idle, and whose destruction does not slumber;

those who mind earthly things, concerning whom Jude, the brother of James, says:

"These are the blemishes at your love-feasts, feasting together with you without fear, shepherding themselves";

"clouds without water, carried along by winds";

"and wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame";

"wandering stars, for whom the gloom of darkness has been reserved forever." For in calling them "waterless clouds," he hinted at their wicked hail, the enemy of the vine;

and in calling them "wandering stars," he alluded to the plot against the ship;

which ship, and vine, is the church.

But what are the things that necessarily follow for such men? Hear again the same prophet Ezekiel relating:

"...toward the north, each man with his axe in his hand";

"and one man among them clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, with a girdle of sapphire about his waist";

"and they went in and stood beside the bronze altar";

"And the glory of the God of Israel went up from the cherubim, on which it rested, to the threshold of the house";

"And he called the man clothed in the long robe, who had the girdle upon his waist, and the Lord said to him":

"Go into the city after him" — that is, after the one setting the marks upon the foreheads — "and strike, and do not spare your eyes, and have no mercy";

"Slay to utter destruction old man and young man, virgin, infant, and women; but come not near anyone upon whom is the mark";

"And begin at my sanctuary." And they began with the elder men who were in the house of the Lord. But if anyone supposes that these things were prophesied concerning the affairs of Judea alone, such a person seems to be ignorant even of the coming of the Savior;

for Ezekiel did not exercise the priesthood before the captivity;

for while still a young lad, having been carried into captivity together with the tribe of Levi according to God's dispensation, in the thirtieth year he was deemed worthy of the vision of things to come, exercising the priesthood in the captivity, as he himself relates:

"And it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, on the fifth day of the month,"

"while I was among the captives by the river Chebar,"

"the word of the Lord came to Ezekiel, son of Buzi, the priest, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar." But if someone, hard pressed on this point, should say to us:

"—given that it was the Savior who came first, who also gave the sign upon the foreheads, namely the sign of the cross, and that it was after the Savior had been disbelieved that the kingdom of the Romans, under Vespasian, in the fortieth year, cut to pieces the congregation that had wrought lawless deeds—"

"Now these things happened to them as types,"

"and were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come." But I say these things, not because I wish an iron sword to come upon the enemies of God — far be it —

for the prophet does not signify an iron sword, but some other punitive power, concerning which the same Ezekiel says:

"The land upon which I bring a sword" (and "I bring" here stands for "I permit") "and the people of the land take a man from among themselves and set him as their watchman, and the watchman sees the sword coming and blows the trumpet and warns the people, and he who hears hears but does not take heed, and the sword comes and overtakes someone, I will require his blood from his own hand, because he did not heed the sound of the trumpet";

"But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, and does not warn the people, and the sword comes and overtakes someone, I will require his blood from the hand of the watchman, because, having seen the sword, he did not sound the trumpet." Holding this danger before his eyes, blessed John, neither sleeping the sleep of unbelief nor idling in the sloth of love of pleasure, cried out louder than a trumpet, sounding no unclear note, but giving clear knowledge of the diabolical sword, and exhorted all to flee it;

and as many as had a clean conscience, like a mark upon the forehead of their soul, were saved by the grace of God together with you, the faithful Romans;

but as many, on the other hand, as had a defiled conscience, inflamed the peoples and the priests to contentious rivalry against one another, so that by the common evils they might conceal their own private guilt;

it is acknowledged that it is an impossible thing for a man to be found perfect and blameless in this earthly life;

"Who will boast that he has a pure heart? Or who will be bold to claim that he is clean from sin?" And yet blessed John did not know how to take advantage of the occasion;

for one ought not to lay hold of those who are already overpowered.

{THE BISHOP} You seem to me, good Theodore, to be a crafty one.

For while at the outset you put forward to us, as was fitting for you, an appeal to sympathy with a certain contrition, little by little you are found to be, in fact, a lover of mockery.

For not even those considered his enemies found fault with his affairs so harshly.

"In the places of the mighty, do not take your stand;"

"redeeming the time," especially in the case of those who do not accept exhortation or benefit.

{THE BISHOP.} Blessed are you, who interpret the Scriptures in this fashion!

For the saying, "In the places of the mighty, do not take your stand," in Ecclesiastes, was spoken concerning those unworthy and incapable of the priesthood, that they might not seize it.

For by "the mighty" he means the teachers who are mighty in virtue;

first the apostles, who were mighty, clothed with the spirit of power, and then their imitators.

And as for "redeeming the time," this is its meaning: not that we should play the hypocrite, running together with thieves and casting our lot with adulterers, but that in the time of sin we should, through virtue, buy back the time, not having sold it to sin.

He who little by little redeems the time in this manner has redeemed his whole life, having relinquished the pleasures of this life, that he might find the things above this life.

since the one procures safety for himself by flight, on account of his reproof of a certain man, tending the sheep of a Gentile in the mountains;

and another, overcome by grief into a heavy drowsiness, fell asleep, finding no shade of wall or rock, but only under a juniper plant, which itself gave but faint shelter;

and another was let down into a den of lions for the sake of piety;

and another was kept a prisoner in a jail (that is, in some inner chamber), condemned to receive the bread of affliction and scant water, so that, wasting away over a long time, he might have his life forcibly torn from him, on account of his frank speech toward a certain king.

But what will you say to me about John, unequaled among those born of women? Did he not know how to make use of the occasion, when, because of his undisguised reproof of Herod's adultery, he was beheaded — caring for Herod as a physician cares for one afflicted with an incurable disease, either by cauterizing or by cutting? By this same reasoning John too, whether out of pity or out of love, used to reprove those who were sick.

But if the Baptist did not know how to make use of the occasion, how did he recognize the craftsman and maker of the ages, saying:

"Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world"? And how did Paul and Peter — the pillars of the church, who even after death open and close the seasons of repentance to those who wish and knock — not know how to make use of the occasion? — since indeed the one is crucified feet upward, signifying his journey toward heaven, while the other is beheaded on account of his frank speech in Christ, so that he might not fall away from the true Head.

Do not, therefore, accept those who with censorious intent slander the frank speech of the saints.

For this is the custom of pagans and of those who fancy themselves wise, who love their own lives and love to mock the fearlessness of the martyrs.

For neither ought a sword to be blunt, nor frank speech to be ineffectual.

And just as fragrance is inseparable from myrrh, so is goodwill inseparable from frank speech.

And if reproofs were made privately concerning household servants or friends or one's own kin, in whose presence even to blush would be burdensome, then perhaps the one who spoke frankly might be blameworthy, having recognized neither the occasion nor the place;

but what of those made to us without naming names, and for our benefit? Some, nourishing their excuses, do not obey him who said:

"Eat everything sold in the market, asking no questions." But if this shall not be so, then again the saints will be found to have scandalized certain cities or regions by their reproofs, and to have made others fall headlong by their praises.

First, holy Job, censuring a certain Phoenician land, as one that drew upon itself the Satan who warred against him, just as he says:

"Do the tribes of the Phoenicians divide him up among themselves?" Then Moses and the prophets, censuring Egypt, calling it an iron furnace and darkness, while praising Palestine and calling it the land of promise — though it is found that Egypt is a land of promise for the diligent, while Palestine, for the slothful, is not only an iron furnace but also outer darkness through unbelief;

since it is not the places that are to be blamed or praised, but the practices [of those who dwell there].

But why should I extend my discourse to such length, and not begin from brief examples? Did Paul, in calling the Cretans liars, the Galatians foolish, the Corinthians puffed up, and others by other names, acknowledge these faults in these alone, as though bringing his reproof upon them alone, or upon all? Or conversely, in calling the Romans faithful and the Ephesians initiates — to whom he also writes more loftily — and the Thessalonians lovers of the brethren, did he confine his praises to these alone? Not at all;

but as one borne by the Spirit he set down both the censures and the praises, so that he who was worthy of praise, upon recognizing it, might be strengthened in his zeal, while the other, upon reading it, might be grieved by the reminder, and might strip away the cause of the censure.

Therefore neither are the Galatians alone foolish, nor the Cretans alone liars, nor the Corinthians alone arrogant;

for everything exists everywhere, since human nature — both the sinning and the upright — is one, and it becomes now the one, now the other, in the same person, by its own free choice.

In this manner, then, John used to speak frankly in the church;

or rather, he carved out virtue as meat for those who hungered, deboning sin through open reproofs, obeying him who said:

"Rebuke him who sins in the presence of all, that the rest also may have fear." But if some, suffering greatly from arrogance or folly, wish that even their pleasures be praised, this is not the custom that the servants of God hold. For those who are indignant at the censure of greed and fornication and some other loathsome pleasure, in effect say nothing else than that these poisonous things ought to be accepted.

for it has become for us profitable, and a memorial of life.

When Theodore fell silent after his many praises, one of those present burst out with a word, saying:

"How then, adorned with so many excellences, could he have been arrogant?" {THE BISHOP.} "Were you yourself present and so knew him to be arrogant, or did someone else recount it to you?" And he answered:

"I do not know the man," he said, "but I heard from a certain tanner who related that it was rare for him to laugh together with anyone outside the church, being reluctant to spend much time in company with those who wished it."

And this is a sign of disdain and conceit, to shun the company of those who wish [to be with him].

{THE BISHOP.} And whose part was it to find fault with John's philosophy of life, if not a tanner's — one who accepts the stench of his own workshop as a constant companion? But if fleeing the crowds is a sign of disdain, then, according to your reasoning, John the Baptist too will be a despiser of men, since he withdrew into the deserts.

For it is written, that when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up onto the mountain;

and when he had sat down, his disciples came to him, and not the crowds;

"Seeing the crowds, he withdrew privately." Imitating him to the best of his ability, the good John likewise withdrew from the crowds, delighting in those who truly wished to learn something.

...two? {THE BISHOP.} Most certainly — even if the crowd is unprofitable and a rabble of charlatans;

such as the one who said to Jesus:

{THE BISHOP.} My good sir, how then did he, who did none of these things, commit outrage, sparing not his own tongue? For in small matters and in great, the defilement is equal.

"And when will they cease speaking [against him]?" {THE BISHOP.} "Hear, then, concerning all this, and follow idle chatter no longer;"

for you will never have an excuse.

Men who do not live rightly do not hold right opinions of others, always making plausible conjectures and devoting their leisure to this, especially now, when no one dares to say anything different.

For even concerning the Savior God himself, though he lived and spoke and acted above man and above prophet, they spoke monstrous things, gathering up reports about him after the manner of swine or flies (for such was the inclination of the times then).

and some said, "By Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons, he casts out demons;"

others, "Behold, a gluttonous man and a wine-drinker;"

still others, "He is a Samaritan, and has a demon." And why must I go on gathering together such foolish talk? — seeing that the Savior himself, knowing this, said to the apostles:

"Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?" To which the disciples answered, relating the more favorable opinions concerning him:

"Some say Elijah, others Jeremiah, and others still say John the Baptist" —

having passed over in silence the sayings of the great many who were base.

To them he responds in turn with a question, distinguishing them from [ordinary] men (for in disposition they were no longer men, but sons of God — for the Word gave us authority to become children of God):

"But who do you say that I am?" Not all answer, but Peter alone, interpreting the mind of them all:

"You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Accepting the correctness of this answer, the Savior declared, saying:

"You are Peter, and on this rock (that is, on this confession) I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." By this same pattern, then, you will find even now, not only in the case of John but in the case of all, both censures and praises.

And just as at that time evil things were spoken concerning Christ and the apostles, the Ephesians crying out:

"These are the ones who have turned the world upside down" — yet now this has ceased, since they are glorified;

so too you will find that, after this generation, John will be honored as a martyr, once those who opposed the good report concerning him have been overthrown;

and as many as are swinish or doglike will say, "He deceives the world," and so on; but as many as are true disciples, genuinely and with understanding seeking him, will say, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." But if, in the case of the Savior Christ, out of so many myriads of men only twelve were found at the beginning who recognized Jesus with understanding, while the many even now still talk foolishly, why do we scrutinize so precisely concerning John — a man who does not even amount to the spittle of Christ? But why do I say "to the spittle"? — not even to the fringe of his garment;

for all the nations, according to Isaiah, shall be reckoned as a drop from a bucket, and as spittle. Now the manner in which you said he used to insult others is as follows:

For in the first place, it was an impossible thing for him to jest with anyone he happened to meet, let alone to insult them;

but if, somewhere, he saw certain of his genuine disciples, or clergy, or bishops taking excessive pride in some abstinence or in some achievement of bodily virtue, he would mockingly call them by the opposite name, calling the water-drinker a drunkard, and the man without possessions a greedy man, and the merciful man a thief (for this too is a graceful form of teaching toward the genuine, confirming the quality that is present by means of the quality that is not present).

an old man licentious; and an old man devoted to learning he preferred over an ignorant youth, and a propertyless layman over an educated but avaricious man, and a virtuous layman over an idle monk.

which perhaps those who seek after honors call insults;

although Scripture too contains a measure of such insults, as when John said to those who came forward to be discipled:

"Brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?" And again, as Paul says in the Acts to the high priest:

"God is going to strike you, you whitewashed wall!"

and of the Savior, on one occasion to the Jews:

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign";

and on another occasion to all the apostles:

"O foolish ones, and slow of heart";

and on another occasion calling Peter "Satan":

"Get behind me, Satan, for you are a stumbling block to me";

there being no grave cause for which these reproaches came about.

As, then, let us embrace our love of learning with silence, since we are not able to sit in judgment on spiritual men,

for they neither insult out of hatred, nor love solitude out of being puffed up, but practice all useful things out of love.

For this reason, then, all who have been recorded for us as earnest men in the sacred writings are found to have avoided and turned away from the company of the uninstructed, lest in time, through familiar association, they should either diminish something of their virtue or draw in something of that company's wickedness.

Sarah was the first to urge her husband Abraham to banish the maidservant's son, still quite young, from their common hearth;

for she deemed it unfit for him to play with her son Isaac, lest through the pleasure of such company he be drawn into his pursuits and habits.

Jacob too procured his own safety by flight, setting out on his journey to Mesopotamia;

and Lot too was urged by the angels to remove himself from the impious men of Sodom;

but Moses too, as I said before, once he had become great and refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, took thought for his separation from the tyrant and his bodyguard, and urged those of like mind with him to depart together with him and to attend to the exodus.

The prophets too, avoiding the crowd of wicked men, were for the most part to be found in the wilderness; concerning whom the apostle also says:

"wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and the holes of the earth", because of their mingling with the lawless, and knowing besides that mere familiarity is enough to deceive and to drag down into the same vices those who spend their days together;

not only this, but also that such intercourse is in itself blameworthy and harmful, and moreover shameful.

For it is not natural for one who takes no pleasure in something to endure it, even for a short time spent together with it;

for like is ever dear to like, as it is also said:

"Every creature loves its like";

"but the unlike is hostile and alien".

"To the weak I became as weak, that I might win the weak;

to those without law, as one without law, that I might win those without law"? {THE BISHOP:} This testimony, my good friend, does not support what you are saying;

he did not say, "I became careless to the careless, or a babbler to the babblers, or a lover of money to the money-loving," or anything else of that kind, but "I became as this or as that," not "this" itself — for "as this" is not the same as "this."

Such is the sense of what is said or done by the apostle:

whose condescension, even if it produced no great gain, nevertheless caused no harm;

"for I became to the Jews as a Jew, that I might win the Jews" — although he was of the Jews, being circumcised;

how then does he say "as a Jew" and not "a Jew"? For he was often found keeping the Sabbath and fasting together with them, without corrupting the doctrines of the Savior, so that by this familiarity and by walking alongside them he might draw them to a more perfect knowledge;

not partaking of that disease itself, nor raging with the same desires,

for this is the conduct befitting a teacher: not to linger long among the crowds, but, remaining calm and searching diligently, to seek to discern their manifold characters, just as with skilled physicians as well;

for they, spending most of their time occupied with their books, both foretell the causes of diseases and hand down the remedies, drawing near to the sick only so far as to discover the ailment and provide the medicine, not playing games with them nor dining together with them.

For this is not the office of medical excellence — to eat together or to play together — but rather to bring the ailing person back to health.

Cease, then, I beg you, and torment me no more about these same matters, since virtue is never overcome by the reproaches of the loose-tongued;

but rather accept my judgment, and set a doorkeeper over your ears, so that they may not admit every word and let it into the inner chamber to trouble your mind.

But permit me to fill in what remains of the narrative;

for I am pressed for time on my journey.

{THE BISHOP:} If what I have earlier told you concerning the blessed John has appeared clear to you, with no falsehood mixed in, and if you remember these things, I will also relate to you what you are asking about.