Symposium & Fragments 2-5

Greek original · 5 verses · some words can be tapped for a gloss

2-5:1

ΟΡΘΟΔ. Ὅτι μὲν οὖν ἀδύνατον ὑπάρχειν ἀγένητα δύο ἄμα, οὐδὲ σὲ ἀγνοεῖν νομίζω, εἰ καὶ τὰ μάλιστα δοκεῖς προλαβὼν τοῦτο προστεθεικέναι τῷ λόγῳ, τὸ πάντως ἐξ ἀνάγκης τὸ ἕτερον δεῖν λέγειν, ἢ ὅτι κεχώρισται τῆς ὕλης ὁ θεός, ἢ οὖ πάλιν ὅτι ἀμέριστος αὐτῆς τυγχάνει

ORTHODOXUS: That it is impossible for two uncreated things to exist together, I do not suppose you are ignorant — even though you do indeed seem, having taken it for granted, to have added this to the argument: that one must by all means and of necessity say one of two things, either that God is separated from matter, or again that He is undivided from it.

正統者: 兩個非受造之物不可能同時並存——這事我想你並非不知道，雖然你確似已先入為主地把這加進論點裡：就是必須無論如何、必然地說兩者之一，或是神與物質相分離，或是祂與物質不可分。

2-5:2

εἰ μὲν οὖν ἡνῶσθαι τις αὐτὸν εἰπεῖν Μέλοι, ὲν τὸ ἀγένητον λέξει. ἔκαστον γὰρ τούτων μέρος ἔσται τοῦ πλησίον· ἀλλήλων δὲ μέρη τυγχάνοντα οὐκ ἔσται ἀγένητα δύο, ἀλλ ἕν ἐκ διαφόρων συνεστός. οὐδὲ γὰρ τὸν ἄνθρωπον ἔχοντα διάφορα μέλη κατακερματίζομεν εἰς πολλὰ γενητά. ἀλλ εἰ, ὡς ὁ λόγος ἀπαιτεῖ, ἕν τι γενητὸν τὸν ἄνθρωπον πολυμερὲς πρὸς τοῦ θεοῦ γεγονέναι φαμέν, οὕτως ἀνάγκη, εἰ [μὲν] μὴ κεχώρισται τῆς ὕλης ὁ θεός, ἐν τὸ εἶναι λέγειν

If, then, one should wish to say that He is united with it, he will be saying there is one uncreated thing. For each of these will be a part of the other; and being parts of one another, they will not be two uncreated things, but one composed of different parts. For we do not chop a man, who has different members, into many created things; rather, if, as the argument requires, we say that man is one created thing, of many parts, made by God, then likewise it is necessary, if God is not separated from matter, to say that being is one.

那麼，若有人願說祂與物質聯合，他就是在說只有一個非受造之物。因為這兩者各要成為對方的一部分；而既互為彼此的部分，就不是兩個非受造之物，乃是一個由不同部分所組成的。因為我們並不把一個有不同肢體的人切割成許多受造之物；倒不如照論點所要求的，說人是一個由眾多部分構成、由神所造的受造之物。照樣，若神不與物質相分離，就必須說存有是一。

2-5:3

εἰ δὲ κεχωρίσθαι φήσει τις, ἀνάγκη εἶναί τι τὸ ἀνὰ μέσον άμφοτέρων, ὅπερ καὶ τὸν χ·ωρισμὸν αὐτῶν δείκνθσιν. ἀδύνατον γὰρ ἐν διαστάσει ἐξετάζεσθαί τι ἀπό τινος, οὐκ ὄντος ἑτέρου καθ ὃ ἡ διάστασις ἑκατέρου γίνεται

But if someone says that He is separated, it is necessary that there be something between the two, which precisely shows their separation. For it is impossible for one thing to be discerned as set apart from another at an interval, if there is not something else by which the interval between each arises.

但若有人說祂是相分離的，就必須有某物介於二者之間，這正顯出它們的分離。因為一物若無另一物據以產生間隔，便不可能被辨認為與另一物相隔有距離。

2-5:4

ὅπερ οὐ μέχρι τούτου ἵσταται καὶ μόνου, ἀλλὰ καὶ πλείστων ὅσων. ὃν γὰρ ἐπὶ τῶν δύο ἀγενήτων εἴπαμεν λόγον, τοῦτον ἐξ ἀνάγκης ὁμοίως προχωρεῖν, εἰ τὰ ἀγένητα δοθείη τρία. καὶ γὰρ περὶ τούτων ἐροίμην ἄν, εἰ κεχώρισται ἀπ ἀλλήλων ἢ αὖ πάλιν ἕκαστον ἥνωται τῷ πλησίον

And this does not stop with this one case only, but extends to as many as you please. For the same argument we stated concerning the two uncreated things must of necessity likewise proceed, if three uncreated things were granted. For concerning these too I would ask: are they separated from one another, or again is each united with its neighbor?

這不僅止於這一例，乃延及你所願的任何數目。因為我們論到兩個非受造之物所說的同一論點，若承認有三個非受造之物，也必然照樣推進。因為對這三者我也要問：它們是彼此相分離，還是每個又與相鄰的聯合？

2-5:5

εἰ μὲν γὰρ ἡνῶσθαί τις εἰπεῖν ἐθέλοι, τὸν αὐτὸν ἀκούσει τῷ πρώτῳ λογον. εἰ δ' αὐ πόλιν κεχωρίσθαι, οὐ φεύξεται τὴν ἐξ ἀνάγκης τοῦ χωρίξοντος ὑπόστασιν

For if someone should wish to say that they are united, he will hear the same argument as in the first case. But if again, on the other hand, that they are separated, he will not escape the necessary subsistence of that which separates them.

因為若有人願說它們是聯合的，他必聽到與第一例相同的論點。但若反過來說它們是相分離的，他便逃不過那分隔者必然的存在。

← ch. 2-4ch. 2-6 →

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