COMPANION: But as for the argument against the friend here, you seem to me to have made it sufficiently. For from the things he granted at the outset of the discussion, you seemed to draw your conclusion well. For in truth, if matter was quality-less, and God is the craftsman of the qualities, and the evils are qualities, then God will be the maker of the evils.
Now let the argument against him be reckoned well stated; but to me it seems false to say that matter is quality-less. For it is not possible to say of any substance whatsoever that it is quality-less. Indeed, in the very saying that it is quality-less, one signifies its quality, sketching out what kind of thing matter is — which is itself a species of quality. Wherefore, if it is agreeable to you, take up the argument with me from the beginning.
For to me matter seems to have qualities from eternity. For thus also I say that the evils are from its effluence, so that of the evils God is free of responsibility, while matter is the cause of all of them.
ORTHODOXUS: I accept your eagerness, my friend, and I commend your zeal in the discussion. For it is fitting indeed that every lover of learning should not simply and at random assent to what is said, but should make an accurate examination of the arguments. For not even if the questioner, having defined contrary to reason, has furnished his fellow-discussant an occasion to draw conclusions as he wishes, will this then also persuade the hearer for the rest; rather, the hearer, being present, will say whatever it seems possible to state well. For one of two things will be the case: either, hearing the very point against which he was inclined to be moved, he will be perfectly benefited, or he will refute the fellow-discussant as not speaking the truth.