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Justin

Apologies & Dialogue 3-5

Greek original · 6 verses · some words can be tapped for a gloss

← ch. 3-4ch. 3-6 →
3-5:1
Οὐδὲν οὖν ἴσασι περὶ τούτων ἐκεῖνοι οἱ φιλόσοφοι· οὐδὲ γὰρ τί ποτέ ἐστι ψυχὴ ἔχουσιν εἰπεῖν. Οὐκ ἔοικεν. Οὐδὲ μὴν ἀθάνατον χρὴ λέγειν αὐτήν· ὅτι εἰ ἀθάνατός ἐστι, καὶ ἀγέννητος δηλαδή. Ἀγέννητος δὲ καὶ ἀθάνατός ἐστι κατά τινας λεγομένους Πλατωνικούς. καὶ τὸν κόσμον σὺ ἀγέννητον λέγεις; Εἰσὶν οἱ λέγοντες, οὐ μέντοι γε αὐτοῖς συγκατατίθεμαι ἐγώ
'Then those philosophers know nothing about these matters; for they cannot even say what the soul really is.' 'It seems not.' 'Nor indeed ought one to call it immortal; for if it is immortal, it is clearly also unbegotten.' 'But it is unbegotten and immortal, according to certain so-called Platonists.' 'Do you also say that the world is unbegotten?' 'There are those who say so, but I do not agree with them.'
「那麼那些哲學家對這些事一無所知;因為他們連靈魂究竟是什麼也說不出來。」「看來是這樣。」「再者,也不該稱它為不朽的;因為它若是不朽的,顯然也就是非受生的了。」「但照某些所謂的柏拉圖派的說法,靈魂是非受生且不朽的。」「那你也說世界是非受生的嗎?」「有人是這樣說,可我並不贊同他們。」
3-5:2
Ὀρθῶς ποιῶν. Τίνα γὰρ λόγον ἔχει σῶμα οὕτω στερεὸν καὶ ἀντιτυπίαν ἔχον καὶ σύνθετον καὶ ἀλλοιούμενον καὶ φθίνον καὶ γινόμενον ἑκάστης ἡμέρας μὴ ἀπ ἀρχῆς τινος ἡγεῖσθαι γεγονέναι; Εἰ δὲ κόσμος γεννητός, ἀνάγκη καὶ τὰς ψυχὰς γεγονέναι καὶ οὐκ εἶναὶ ποι τάχα· διὰ γὰρ τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐγένοντο καὶ τὰ ἄλλα ζῶα, εἰ ὅλως κατ ἰδίαν καὶ μὴ μετὰ τῶν ἰδίων σωμάτων φήσεις αὐτὰς γεγονέναι. Οὕτως δοκεῖ ὀρθῶς ἔχειν. Οὐκ ἄρα ἀθάνατοι. Οὔκ, ἐπειδὴ καὶ κόσμος γεννητὸς ἡμῖν ἐφάνη
'And rightly so. For what reason is there to suppose that a body so solid, possessing resistance and composition, changing and decaying and coming into being each day, has not had its origin from some beginning? But if the world is generated, then of necessity the souls too have come into being and are perhaps somewhere not at all; for they came into being for the sake of men and the other animals—if indeed you will say they came into being separately by themselves and not together with their own bodies.' 'This seems to be correct.' 'Then they are not immortal.' 'No, since the world also appeared to us to be generated.'
「這樣才對。因為有什麼理由認為,一個如此堅實、具有抗力與複合性、天天變化、衰朽又生成的物體,竟不是從某個起源而來呢?但世界若是受生的,那麼眾魂也必是受造而成的,或許並非永遠存在於某處;因為牠們是為了人與其他活物的緣故而被造的——倘若你竟要說牠們是各自獨立地、而非與自身的身體一同被造的話。」「這似乎是對的。」「那麼牠們便不是不朽的了。」「不是,既然世界在我們看來也是受生的。」
3-5:3
Ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδὲ ἀποθνήσκειν φημὶ πάσας τὰς ψυχὰς ἐγώ· ἕρμαιον γὰρ ἦν ὡς ἀληθῶς τοῖς κακοῖς. Ἀλλὰ τί: Τὰς μὲν τῶν εὐσεβῶν ἐν κρείττονί ποι χώρῳ μένειν. τὰς δὲ ἀδίκους καὶ πονηρὰς ἐν χείρονι, τὸν τῆς κρίσεως ἐκδεχομένας χρόνον τότε. Οὕτως αἱ μέν, ἄξιαι τοῦ θεοῦ φανεῖσαι, οὐκ ἀποθνήσκουσιν ἔτι· αἱ δὲ κολά ζονται. ἔστ ἂν αὐτὰς καὶ εἶναι καὶ κολάζεσθαι θεὸς θέλῃ
'But I do not say that all souls die; for that would truly be a windfall for the wicked. What then? The souls of the pious remain in some better place, while the unjust and wicked are in a worse, awaiting the time of judgment that comes then. Thus those that have shown themselves worthy of God no longer die, while the others are punished, so long as God wills them both to exist and to be punished.'
「但我並不說一切靈魂都死亡;因為那對惡人來說真是天大的便宜了。那麼怎樣呢?敬虔之人的靈魂存留在某個更好的所在,不義與邪惡之人的則在更壞的所在,等候那將要來臨的審判之時。如此,那些顯為配得神的靈魂便不再死亡,其餘的則受懲罰,只要神願意牠們既存在又受罰。」
3-5:4
Ἆρα τοιοῦτόν ἐστιν λέγεις, οἶον καὶ Πλάτων ἐν Τιμαίῳ αἰνίσσεται περὶ τοῦ κόσμου, λέγων ὃτι αὐτὸς μὲν καὶ φθαρτός ἐστινἧ γέγονεν, οὐ λυθήσεται δὲ οὐδὲ τεύξεται θανάτου μοίρας διὰ τὴν βούλησιν τοῦ θεο(??); Τοῦτ αὐτό σοι δοκεῖ καὶ περὶ ψυχῆς καὶ ἀπλῶς πάντων πέρι λέγεσθαι; Ὅσα γάρ ἐστι μετὰ τὸν θεὸν ἔσται ποτέ. ταῦτα φύσιν φθαρτὴν ἔχειν, καὶ οἶά τε ἐξαφανισθῆναι καὶ μὴ εἶναι ἔτι· μόνος γὰρ ἀγέννητος καὶ ἄφθαρτος θεὸς καὶ διὰ τοῦτο θεός ἐστι, τὰ δὲ λοιπὰ πάντα μετὰ τοῦτον γεννητὰ καὶ φθαρτά
'Is what you say, then, such as Plato hints at in the Timaeus concerning the world, when he says that it is in itself perishable, inasmuch as it has come into being, yet will not be dissolved nor meet with the lot of death, because of the will of God? Does the same thing seem to you to be said also concerning the soul and, simply, concerning all things? For whatever exists after God, or shall ever exist, these have a perishable nature, and are capable of being annihilated and of being no more; for God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and for this reason He is God, while all the rest after Him are generated and perishable.'
「那麼你所說的,是否就像柏拉圖在《蒂邁歐篇》中論到世界時所暗示的——他說世界本身既已生成,便是可朽壞的,卻不會被消解,也不會遭受死亡的命運,乃因神的旨意?這同一道理,在你看來,是否也適用於靈魂,乃至一概地適用於萬物?因為凡在神之後存在、或將要存在的,這一切都具有可朽壞的本性,能被消滅、歸於虛無;因為唯獨神是非受生且不朽壞的,正因此祂才是神,而其餘一切在祂之後的都是受生且可朽壞的。」
3-5:5
Τούτου χάριν καὶ ἀποθνήσκουσιν αἱ ψυχαὶ καὶ κολάζονται· ἐπεὶ εἰ ἀγέννητοι ἦσαν, οὔτ ἂν ἐξημάρτανον οὔτε ἀφροσύνης ἀνάπλεῳ ἦσαν. οὐδὲ δειλαὶ καὶ θρασεῖαι πάλιν, ἀλλ οὐδὲ ἑκοῦσαί ποτε εἰς σύας ἐχώρουν καὶ ὄφεις καὶ κύνας, οὐδὲ μὴν ἀναγκάζεσθαι αὐτὰς θέμις, εἴπερ εἰσὶν ἀγέννητοι. Τὸ γὰρ ἀγέννητον τῷ ἀγεννήτῳ ὅμοιόν ἐστι καὶ ἴσον καὶ ταὐτόν, καὶ οὔτε δυνάμει οὔτε τιμῇ προκριθείῃ ἂν θατέρου τὸ ἕτερον
'For this reason souls also die and are punished; since, if they were unbegotten, they would neither sin nor be filled with folly, nor again be cowardly and rash, nor would they ever willingly pass into swine and serpents and dogs; nor indeed is it right that they should be compelled to do so, if they are unbegotten. For that which is unbegotten is like and equal and identical to that which is unbegotten, and neither in power nor in honor could the one be preferred to the other.'
「正因此緣故,眾魂也死亡並受懲罰;因為牠們若是非受生的,就既不會犯罪,也不會充滿愚妄,更不會時而怯懦、時而魯莽,也絕不會甘願轉生為豬、為蛇、為狗;甚至若牠們是非受生的,被強迫如此也不合理。因為凡非受生的,與另一非受生的乃是相似、相等、相同的,無論在能力或尊榮上,二者誰也不能勝過誰。」
3-5:6
Ὅθεν οὐδὲ πολλά ἐστι τὰ ἀγέννητα· εἰ γὰρ διαφορά τις ἦν ἐν αὐτοῖς, οὐκ ἂν εὕροις ἀναζητῶν τὸ αἴτιον τῆς διαφορᾶς, ἀλλ᾿, ἐπ ἄπειρον ἀεὶ τὴν διάνοιαν πέμπων, ἐπὶ ἑνός ποτε στήσῃ ἀγεννήτου καμὼν καὶ τοῦτο φήσεις ἁπάντων αἴτιον. ταῦτα ἔλαθε, φημὶ ἐγώ, Πλάτωνα καὶ Πυθαγόραν. σοφοὺς ἄνδρας, οἳ ὥσπερ τεῖχος ἡμῖν καὶ ἔρεισμα φιλοσοφίας ἐξεγένοντο
'Hence the unbegotten things are not many; for if there were some difference among them, you would not, on inquiry, find the cause of the difference, but, sending your thought ever onward to infinity, you would at last wearily come to rest upon one unbegotten, and would declare this to be the cause of all.' 'Could it be,' I said, 'that these things escaped Plato and Pythagoras, wise men who became for us, as it were, the wall and bulwark of philosophy?'
「因此非受生之物並非眾多;因為它們之間若有什麼差異,你在探究時便找不出那差異的緣由,反倒會把心思永無止境地推向無限,最終疲憊不堪地停在某一個非受生者之上,並宣稱這便是萬有的根源。」我說:「難道這些道理竟逃過了柏拉圖與畢達哥拉斯——這兩位智者,他們對我們而言,可說是哲學的城牆與堡壘——的眼目?」
← ch. 3-4ch. 3-6 →
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